Ordination by Petition?

An interesting thing happened today.  Tony Jones ordained Adam Walker-Cleveland with an online petition with the following words:

Adam Walker-Cleaveland, having watched you be ritually abused by the ordination process in the Presbyterian Church (USA), we beseech you to forsake ordination in said bureaucracy.

And please accept the following: We, the body of Christ, hereby ordain you as a Minister of Word and Sacrament, and we grant you all of the rights and responsibilities thereto.

May God bless your ministryhttp://petitionspot.com/petitions/ordainadam

I don’t know Adam, nor do I know his story.  I don’t know if he accepts this ordination or the approval of the 59 people that have so far offered their support to the petition.  This interested me in a couple ways that leads me to reflect on the Emergent and United Methodist Churches.

1)  It strikes me that despite the active efforts of the Emerging Village community to remain institution-less (they dissolved their directing board leadership less than a year ago), they cannot escape human realities that seek organization and establishment.  Whether he wants to be or not, Tony (along with other gifted individuals) serves as a de facto bishop of the Emerging Church.  He makes visits to new Emergent churches (I saw him bless the new worship space used by Journey, and emergent community in Dallas) and now offers online ordination! 

Maybe Tony Jones and John Wesley have a little more in common than most people think

Here’s the thing.  I know that many of you Methodists are aghast that he would have the gall to do such a thing.  Remember, though, that this is how the Methodist church started.  John Wesley, though ordained, was not a bishop when he rdained Coke and Asbury.  They took upon the title of bishop at the Christmas conference without that sanction of the Church of England or even John Wesley.  Before anyone criticizes, let’s pause to remember where we came from.  (It’s fair to disagree with him, but please no Tony-bashing).

2)  I know many people who have been abused (in, what frequently seems to be ritual fashion) by Boards of Ordained Ministry and the church officials who influence them.  I’ve had to fight some battles to be ordained and have seen others lose the battle to pursue ministry in another denomination or profession.  I come out of the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference in which the Board of Ordained ministry which in 2007 recommended Ordination in Full Connection for fewer than half of the requesting candidates!  It very well may be that those half were not ready, qualified or called, but all of them had been under the care of BOM or DCOM for at least 8 years.  Surely, if there were issues, they could have been addressed in some way, but they weren’t and they probably still aren’t being addressed. 

On the large scale, ordination decisions are made by a body of people who have little or no relationship with cadidates.  They read recommendations from the candidates congregation, supervising minister (if there is one) and a mentor, but only one of those people gets an actual vote. 

What if ordination in the United Methodist Church was more relationally driven?

We currently flirt with relationships in the ordination process.  We assign a mentor and a candidate works through workbooks with them (I haven’t used a workbook since I was in second grade until I started the ordination process), but there isn’t usually a deep relationship.  How often does an ordination mentor go to hear their mentee preach?  How often does a mentor engage the people that see the mentee in ministry every day?  How much say does the mentor actually have in deciding the ordination fate of the candidate? I remember the most consistent worry from candidates going through ordination:  it’s really hard when it feels like they just don’t know me.  And it amazes me that someone could be in the process for so many years and still not feel known. 

The reality is that Board of Ordained Ministry members have full-time appointments.  Reading the paperwork of dozens of candidates is enough of a drain on their time.  How could they possibly invest in the deeper relationships that are needed while still maintaining their own appointments?  Yet we all know that deeper relationships would help the process. 

Ordination is inherently relational, other wise we wouldn’t do it with such a personal act as laying hands on someone.  When I was ordained, I marvelled at the power of the moment and the weight of so many hands upon my head-the hands of people that I respected and looked up to as well as the hands of people I very much disliked and had wrestled with for years.  All of them were there and they stood for the hands of the community–the hands of the church rested upon my head and weighed me down.

That weight is good.  We should feel pressed upon by the weight of the body of the church.  Ordination should be nothing less than that.  I believe that the moments leading up to ordination ought to be as personal as the ordination itsself.  I hope we can find ways to do that.

I'm glad that this guy was rejected for ordination

So what’s the answer?  I don’t know, but something tells me that the answer doesn’t lie in congregational ordination or web-based petition ordination.  Jim Jones could easily have been ordained by a United Methodist congregation, but he was rejected by a United Methodist Board of Ordained Ministry.  We need the weight of the broader body of Christ upon us, we need the confirmation of he community that spans centuries and we need standards of education, effectiveness and clarity of call before we take ministers into a lifelong covenant (especially with guaranteed appointment).  We need a broader system to protect the church and congregations.  

What are your ideas?  How can we be more relational in ordination?  How can we be better as a church at calling, nurturing and building up its ministers?

Clerical_collar_9

32 Responses

  1. Umm

    I guess Wesley would always counter that the Methodist movement had the marks of the one holy catholic apostolic church in that it did ordain by laying on of hands and this was apostolic as the movement adhered to right scripture, prayer, Baptism and the eucharist.

    Wesley would also counter that it was true Church and carried on the traditions of the Church, not to be muddled up with human made tradition, Wesley would counter all on scripture.

    Of course reason and experience come in too as He was a pragmatist.

    I think that what separates is that Wesley would counter on true church where as – I think alot of the emergents are trying to free themselves from what is called true church???

    I’m a pre – ordination student in the british Methodist church. The main panel interviews at connexion are with people we dont know, however, we have good relationships with our oversite reps and our super’s and Ministers can represent us at all other interviews. This is all on top of congregaiton/ circuit etc reports…

    What do you reckon.

    • I agree with how Wesley would probably counter. Tony’s act of ordination is certainly different from Wesley’s, however, both pushed the envelope of what was acceptable in the day.

      I’m glad to hear from a British Methodist and hear your system! Our district superintendents do have a voice with the Ordination committee. In some conferences this offers little help as a DS might oversee over 100 churches making it difficult for him or her to gain an accurate picture of the candidate.

      Don’t get me wrong. There are good things in the UM ordination process. I’m just looking for ways to make it more relational and better.

    • I think it’s a fair critique to point out that, to the best of my knowledge, Tony isn’t ordained. Even if there were a laying on of hands, there would be no apostolic succession. Not everyone in the UMC believes that apostolic succession is important. As we’ve been in conversation about joining into full communion with the Episcopal Church, however, it’s becoming more of an issue. It was a dealbreaker for the Episcopals and The Lutherans. To work it out, they set up a system in which an Episcopal bishop takes part in the ordination of all Lutheran pastors. This “trickles in” apostolic succession. The Methodists will probably do likewise and are already beginning the process. When i was ordained last year, an Episcopal bishop took part as well.

      For some folks, apostolic succession is silly superstition and it very well might be. I wouldn’t deny the possibility that God could ordain someone through means other than apostolic succession. I know that for me it a cool and powerful thing to think that the Peter laid his hands on someone, who laid his hands on someone, who laid his hands on someone…until that person laid her hands on me.

      Peace

      Mike

  2. Glad you wrote this, Blake. I was thinking of writing something like this myself.

    I am a bit surprised by this. A movement that prides itself in community should be the last group to support ordaining someone in the virtual world. While no system is perfect, at the very least ordination ought to include a process by where both an inward and outward call are affirmed by a community (how’s that for my Methodism coming out?) :D
    It seems absurd to me that people would sign a petition to ordain someone with or without that person’s consent. Wasn’t Cyprian bulldozed into the bishopric under similar circumstances? (or was it Clement?)

    Gotta run – dog needs blowdried.

    peace.

  3. Excellent insights, Blake.

    I think the ordination petition thing was a well-intended idea by a brilliant person in ardent support of yet another person (his friend) who got screwed by the system…but I don’t understand it. I’ve sent friendly notes to several friends in the “emergent” community asking them to enlighten me on why they signed the petition and encouraged me to sign it. I really WANT to understand it…but nobody has deigned to dignify my questions with a response.

    Denominations exist because of the human desire to make order out of chaos. They’re imperfect and sinful; just like a congregation or a web-based network of people. Adam got hosed. He’s not the first, and he won’t be the last. I hope Adam (and others who feel abused and disenfranchised by the ordination process) continue working to make the system better and not jump ship.

    Thanks again for adding your perspective. I pray the discourse remains civil all around.

    • Erik, I personally believe all Christ-followers are called to be a priesthood. I signed the petition because I feel nobody should tell Adam or anybody else they cannot be a minister of Christ. I don’t believe in true ordination as it sets apart a few to do the work that should be done by many. Also, I don’t see it as a Biblical example. We find ourselves in a situation today in which we pay the pastor/staff to do the stuff of the Kingdom, when really we all are to do the stuff of the Kingdom. I do not propose letting the office of lead pastor go, but I surely feel the role needs to be re-examined from a Biblical standpoint. I acknowledge that there are different roles people are called to, but the structure the church has become known as (rather than the body of people it really is) resembles more the pagan culture of ancient Greece than it does the life of Jesus we are called to live.

      • Theresa-

        I’m really glad you wrote this reply. I too believe that all baptized Christians are called to ministry. it’s a good protestant notion of the “priesthood of all believers.” I do, however, still believe that God calls us to play different roles within the body and that some are called to that priestly role that has existed not just in pagan cultures but in the tribe of Israel as well as the early church. Jesus criticized the religious authorities of the day but not their existence as religious leaders.

        I really like something that the Episcopal church does. In addition to the orders of ministry that most denominations hold (priests, bishops, deacons), they include the laity as a “order of ministry.” I worked for a while at an Episcopal church and thought it was cool that when they baptized someone (infant or adult), they placed a stole upon them and charged them to ministry. I’ll probably post more on this on the mainsite.

    • That’s a good observation, Erik. All systems are flawed and sinful (including the emergent village). Despite the strongest efforts of the first wave of emergent Christians to be anti-institutional, they cannot escape forming the semblance of an institution themselves. I think that the next wave of emergents are less anti-institutional than many. I say this for a couple reasons:
      1) The generation that follows Gen X (Millenials) is, as a whole, less wary of institutions as long as said bodies can prove that they are worthy of investment.
      2) Phyllis Tickle has, I think, influenced many of the emergent leaders to see that there are some good things coming out of denominations and those who love their denominations
      3) At the Great Emergence Gathering, organized by Tony and Doug, there was intentional work to get the “hyphenads” organized. Work that continues on this site!

      Tony is sinful. Emergent village is sinful. So are the denominations. A question for Tony: why is the ordination he offered less sinful than that of a denomination?

  4. Great piece. I have long thought the same things about some emerging anti-denominationalism.

  5. Am I the only one who saw it and thought it was a joking way to celebrate Adam’s ordination with a trickster response? It’s just fun, guys.

    But I love your main point: That ordination is inherently relational. Keep pushing that forward. (And along those lines, I imagine the only people who would sign this joke petition are people who have had a genuine relational connection to Adam, either in real life or online.)

    • It was done in fun, you’re right, but also serves to make a point. I mean, it’s Tony we’re talking about here and I personally believe the man is a genius. ;-)

    • I honestly don’t know if it was done in fun or not, nor can we guage whether people who signed the petition saw it as fun or not. Regardless, I’m having fun with the intellectual and spiritual exercize it’s offering us. I’m glad that Tony is giving us the opportunity to question, think and imagine!

  6. I am a seminary student who is also the child and step child of UMC preachers . I also happen to be gay and yet I know I have been called to the ministry by God. Understand called by God not by man. I can find no place within scripture which states the archaic system of ordination practiced by the UMC is either the only or best method. Frankly I wonder what makes a handful of people believe they are a better judge of qualifications than a group of people siging a petition. While I am commenting I wonder if Jesus would choose his disciples based upon rather they could successfully negoitiate and navigatr the ordination process. I am not sure but the last time I checked being educated was not a requirement for being a fisherman i any age. Yet, I seem to recall that Peter and Andrew… Suffice it to say, I find this rather refreshing and wonder if we might think about it twice before we write it off to lunacy. I kind of like the idea of a group of individuals choosing to bless and affirm the ministry of anyone. Given some of the folks Iknow who are ordained elders it can’t be any worse.

    • Yes, the model of Christ in blessing and equipping the personal ministry of others is radically different than the model we see in the institution today.

    • s b -

      I agree with a lot of what you’re saying and I am sad that my denomination will not affirm your calling to ordained ministry. I stay in the denomination in the hope that I can help change that. I agree that Jesus wouldn’t call people based on how well they can navigate a process and the UM process needs to be streamlined, simplified and shortened. It’s a pretty absurd process in manifold ways.

      On the education piece, I think that there might be something in the scriptures though. It was only after the disciples were with Jesus for a period of time that he began charging them to “go and do likewise.” They called him “Rabbi.” I think it’s safe to assume that a good deal of education took place while traveling, talking over the file, teaching and walking together for several years. Education isn’t necessary to minister to others (I’m ministered to by my 3 year-old daughter all the time), but it is an important tool for those who are charged with the task of organizing the church.

      • I agree absolutely. Otherwise I wold not be persuing an M Div and loking toward a Doctorate in the near future. I think I wanted to emphasis that it should be only a component in the discernment process for ordination and not used to determine. I believe any and all who seek to be spokes people for God should also be educated. It has been written that a little bit of education ca be a dangerous thing. If we are not willingas miiisters to seek a lifetime journsy of increasing our knowledge we run the risk of not shainr the gospel as it is meant to be shared,

  7. As someone who’s been through–and bounced around by–the pre-ordination system in a denomination, I sympathize with Tony’s desire to make something happen for his friend. I’ve had Baptist friends who have volunteered to ordain me. But like those who don’t know whether apostolic succession is all superstition or not, I also think it’s a cool story we tell about how we anoint leaders who help empower all Christians to do the work of the Kingdom.

    And I too think that ministry has to be relational. While Phyllis Tickle says we are going to have to figure out exactly what we think online/virtual ministry might look like (down to the question of what online sacraments might be), I don’t think we’ve done it yet. Which is to say that I’m not sure this is it. I think particularly in emerging Christianity ministry of whatever sort grows up within a community. Is a community forming around this ordination question? That would be the interesting thing for me.

  8. I don’t think it was done in fun at all. Have you read Tony’s comments on Adam’s blog? He more or less called anyone who encourages Adam to be patient and/or stay within the PCUSA that they are complicit in the “sin.”

    I can honestly say that in my 5 years of following emerging this is the first time I have been deeply disappointed in the way they (Tony, who is by all accounts, “bishop”) are handling this.

  9. Chad,
    Um, wow. I went over and ready Tony’s comments.
    I stand corrected. Actually, I think Tony should stand corrected.

  10. yeah, painful, huh?

    I left a comment over there which is awaiting the dreaded moderation.

    peace.

  11. John D’Ella left a wonderful comment on Tony’s blog at Beliefnet about ordaining Adam. Well worth checking out.

  12. Okay so here’s a hypothetical: let’s say that Adam accepts this online ordination from Tony Jones and the petition signers and you attend a worship service that he is leading. He presides over the Eucharist and blesses the elements. Do you participate knowing the roots of his ordination?

    I’m honestly torn. I receive communion at Baptist churches even though they have very different ordination standards, but I don’t if a layperson in a Methodist church takes it upon him or herself to preside over communion. Would I take communion at an unaffiliated house church? Does “size matter” in whether or not we consider ordination to be valid?

    I’m curious what thoughts people have…

  13. Good questions.
    Personally, I would accept communion from anyone offering to be in communion with me, provided we agree that Jesus is Lord. So, yes, I would partake of communion if Adam was presiding.
    But this is part of my issue with this whole thing. I am NOT in communion with Adam and he is not someone I expect to be sharing Eucharist with anytime soon. He and I are not in community and I am guessing that most of the people signing the petition are not in community with him either. I fail to see the good in blessing an ordination, giving them sacramental rights, of someone I have never nor never plan to share Table with.

    Thoughts?

  14. As I continue to follow this conversation I still think we need to decide the purpose of ordination in the first place. If Jesus said to those gathered at the last supper take, eat, drink in remembrance of me every time do any of us really believe only someone ordained by a recognized body can bless the communal meal? It is a question we need to answer as we seek to witness in a technological and global environment. I wonder how much of this man made process is really a result of the Spirit and how much is an effort on human’s desire to control. Is there a compelling reason to ordain or is it time to seek to be a witnes to each other in thought word and deed?

  15. Just in case anyone is still looking at this question and it has not had its 15 minutes of fame now ready to be politely put back in the coset with other indompatible ideas. Let’s look at what does ordination ned to be like in the emergent church. If we are going to revolutionize the church as we know it today, take time to look at the wole of the church and be willing to grab those Wesleyan roots and to look at the radical nature of Asbury and Cokesbury and be willing to be as radical as the Jesus we are all claiming to follow. If we had not done this as a church in the past there would still beno Blacks or Women in UMC puopits. We are called to serve and to preach the onr true Gopel of Christ. Have we forgotten who he chose as his disciples, who he chose to hang around him, who he Blessed and who he condemned. Now is an excellent time to look at what, how, and whom we are going to ordain leaders in this emerging church. It is also an excellent time to discuss if it is even necessary to ordain at all.

  16. I apologize for severe spelling errors on previous reply, it is very early in the morning.

  17. I guess I would re-state what I said a couple of days ago…

    However we consider, Asbury and Cokesbury to be radical – Wesley [who ordained for pragmatic reasons- agreed- and it was this also which finally separated the Methodist movement for the CoE] would always counter that the Methodist movement had the marks of the ‘one holy catholic apostolic church’ in that it did ordain by laying on of hands and this was apostolic- the movement adhered to right scripture, prayer, Baptism and the Eucharist. .. Oh, theres so much more to this…Wesley was reracing to a ’stagneted religion – or- denomination. Is this what your actually up against?

    Every revival will surely be accountable to its past in the end and if succesful will became an instution

    I guess this is all placed in the framework of ‘experience’

    OOOOHHHHHHHHHH – I need to think…

  18. I think if we are standing on the precipice of a new age in how we look at organized religion AND if we will seriously consider what Church might look and feel like when done on a online and global stage THAN oerhaps it behooves those of us who see the radical nature of John Wesley to consider becoming radical Christians ourselves. In that light let’s consider alternative means and definitions of ordination. Who is to say just because a thing seems to have always been means it should always be. Picture for a moment an ordination process that recognizes the need for a priestly role to exist but sees that in the process of accountability the people who are being ministered too, the people who have known and been educated with, and the person who is seeking ordination ALL should have a role. I still think that as out of the box as a petition for ordination appears at first there is at least a kernel of possibility for something that has a place in the process present.

    WE cannot continue to do what we have always done and expect to have any different results. Seriously, lets take a step back, look outside the box and be willing to become radicals for Christ. Look at who we all profess to be our Risen Savior. A poor carpenter from the backwater of Galilee, a Nazarene, What good ever came out of Nazareth anyway. A man who broke the Laws of Moses, who ate and cavorted with the unclean. He spoke to women and treated them as equals, he choose his closest followers from the lowest ranks of society. He kept company with most undesirables and had the audacity to challenge the status quo.

    How many of us think Jesus would have made it through the ordination process as it is now defined? Who would want to be the one to tell Him he is not qualified? Come to think of it would any of us stood and told the powers that be they had made a mistake? Would any of us have signed a petition for ordination for the man just described? Would we have felt compelled to lay our hands on Him and recognize Him? Would we do it today if we had the opportunity? Would we?

  19. Speaking as someone who is a clean drug addict, who is a dry alcoholic, who had a conversion in mud in a field…who was homeless and through this was led to a Methodist chapel where I was baptised and within three weeks local preaching… speaking as someone who led my first Easter day service having never been to an Easter day service before in my life… I am all for ‘outside the box ministry’

    I am now pre-ord training and have never hid the fact from any assessment panel that I sooner go and sit with the drunks on the park bench then any academic….

    I follow what your saying- but in a virtual world who is accountable to who. You talk of the incarnation of Jesus and of those he chose to be with… does this not point to an incarnational ministry- where- face to face- and hand to hand and test to test and prayer to prayer we are accountable together to test and challenge and affirm each others calling- whether as the preisthood of all belivers or to test someones call to be set apart to word and sacraments. Okay- online is public- but surley we need the tests- we need the challeges-of face to face encounters…to buld each other up…

    To mention Jesus as not being able to get through the ordination process!! as being one who Cavorted? Jesus acted in a way that the Church as the Body of Christ is meant to act!!
    Any one can see through His actions- Jesus would fit quite adequetly and publically, that Jesus did have a calling, I am sure He would be accepted… All He did was with Love and integrity. This is the Church’s calling.

    Who sits on your panels of assessments?????

    • My point is although we may read about the actions of Jesus few of us understand the how for removed from the main stream Jewish teaching he was. My question to ponder was and is would someone as radical and be ordained in the UMC today. I affirm your personal experience and I readily admit that the UMC can be better than some others in reception of candidates for ordination,. BUT the process is not without major problems and I still believe there must be some alternative. I did not say that we should not continue to minister to those around us. I do believe that if we do not continue to push the boundries on this idae of what and how we do ordination than we will have this issue fade away whle doing nothing and we would have missed a golden opportunity fotr growth and change. By the way while the discipline recognizes your ability to be a recovered drug addict/alcoholic it still wants to claim I am incompatible with Christian teaching. Show me where you can find Christ waying anything is wrong or incompatible with his teaching outside of those who would condemn others without looking at their own sins first.
      Finally, I still wonder if anyone were to be as radically differnet and opposed to the status quo could nasavigate the ordination system we have in the UMC. I didn’t say anything about character, I am talking about anyone with the audacity to be willingly to tell the powers that be they are wrong, that the UMC has strayed so tar from Wesley’s views on social justice, and that says it is time for humans t let God call ministers to the priesthood regardless of age, gender, race, ethnic background, sexual orientation or physical disability would not be selected for ordination as an elder in the UMC. I believe that given the radical nature of Jesus message might have posed problems for even him getting through our process.

  20. S b

    Yes, I hear what your saying…

    It is different here in England, in the Methodist Church. I train alongside other ordination students who are openly Gay or lesbian.

    I know ordained Ministers in circuit who are Gay and Lesbian, or have disabilities…

    Yet, do our theologies and practice run the same?
    On a different level, a comment was made to a pre -ordination student some 40 odd years ago that preaching in the ‘market square’ was no longer fitting for a Methodist student and was not the sort of behaviour that Methodist were to encourage . I wonder how far we here have come from Weley’s ways…?

    However, I was on a park the other night leading a Bible study with three guys who were on drugs/homeless/ stealing to get their food…

    The Gospel of christ knows no religion but social…

    someone knocking on my door- get back to me- we have loads to talk about

    God be in all we are and do

  21. Sb, there was someone at the door, I did not finish that last post…

    with reference to my comments on it…

    as you said – ‘the way the discipline recognizes my ability to be a recovered drug addict/alcoholic it still wants to claim that you are incompatible with Christian teaching’

    Regarding ‘do our theologies run the same- i was refering to the methodists doctrine…not me and you… although we are inherently linked in this.

    I was speaking into – that when metioning sexuality on my last post – that it is very different here in England regarding those issues over ordination.

    I think if the church’s agree on the main points in our doctrines we can learn from each other…

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